Excerpts from the Archives of the Narcissism List Part 41

1. Interview with Tim Hall, published by New York Press
2. Interview granted to The Modern Author

1. Interview with Tim Hall, published by New York Press, February 12, 2003

The edited interview appeared here - http://www.nypress.com/16/7/news&columns/feature.cfm

Q: I'm very interested in the concept of corporate narcissism. Many companies are successful without also engaging in criminal behaviour. In your opinion, how much of the recent wave of business scandals in the U.S. is attributable to a corporate "culture of narcissism," and how much to a number of very misguided - and possibly narcissistic - individuals?

A: The "few rotten apples" theory ignores the fact that affairs like Enron and World.com were not isolated incidents - nor were they conducted conspiratorially and surreptitiously. What is now conveniently labeled "misconduct" was an open secret. Information - albeit often relegated to footnotes - was available. The charismatic malignant narcissists who headed these corporation were cheered on by investors, small and institutional alike. Their grandiose fantasies were construed as visionary. Their sense of entitlement - never commensurate with their actual achievements - was tolerated forgivingly. Their blatant exploitation of co-workers and stakeholders was part of the ethos of the virile Anglo-Saxon, natural selection, can-do, dare-do, version of capitalism. Everyone colluded in this mass psychosis. There are no victims here - only scapegoats.

Q: This relates to my first question. In the late 1990s you couldn't swing a dead cat on lower Broadway without hitting a dozen Internet "visionaries," touting companies which then went bankrupt. These individuals seemed to literally come out of nowhere--suddenly everybody was a Genius with a Big Idea. Again, I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on whether certain business cycles (like the Internet boom) actually create Narcissists, or simply attract numbers of pre-existing Narcissists, looking for quick and easy wealth.

A: The latter. Pathological (or malignant) narcissism is the outcome of a confluence of an appropriate genetic predisposition and early childhood abuse by role models, caretakers, or peers. It is ubiquitous because every human being - regardless of the nature of his society and culture - develops healthy narcissism early in life. Healthy narcissism is rendered pathological by abuse - and abuse, alas, is a universal human behaviour. By "abuse" I mean any refusal to acknowledge the emerging boundaries of the individual. Thus, smothering, doting, and excessive expectations are as abusive as beating and incest.

Pathological narcissism, though, can be latent and induced to emerge (to out) by what I call "collective narcissism". The WAY pathological narcissism manifests and is experienced is dependent on the particulars of societies and cultures. In some cultures, it is encouraged, in others suppressed. In collectivist societies, it may be projected onto the collective, in individualistic societies, it is an individual's trait. Families, businesses, industries, organizations, ethnic groups, churches, and even whole nations can be safely described as "narcissistic" or "pathologically self-absorbed".

The longer the association, or affiliation of the members - the more cohesive and conformist the inner dynamics of the group, the more shared are its grandiose fantasies ("the vision thing"), the more persecutory, or numerous its enemies, the more misunderstood and exclusionary it feels, the more intensive the physical and emotional experiences of its members. The stronger the bonding myth - the more rigorous the common pathology.

Such an all-pervasive and extensive malaise manifests itself in the behavior of each and every member. It is a defining - though often implicit or underlying - mental structure. It has explanatory and predictive powers. It is recurrent and invariable - a pattern of conduct melded with distorted cognition and stunted emotions. And it is often vehemently denied.

Q: What steps might a corporation take to protect it from being ruined by this kind of narcissistic contagion?

A: The first - and most obvious - step is screening. Mental health management is often considered a low organizational priority - frequently with calamitous outcomes. Employees on all levels - especially the upper echelons - should be tested periodically and regularly by professional diagnosticians for personality disorders. Those who test positive should be sacked. There is no way of containing narcissism. It is contagious - weaker people tend to emulate narcissists, stronger ones tend to adopt narcissistic behaviors in order to fend off the narcissist's unwelcome attentions and overweening demands.

Narcissistic behaviour - bullying, stalking, harassment, criminal predilections - should be proscribed and punished severely. Management should be attuned to warning signs - such as a persistent and recurrent inability to get along with all co-workers, a domineering sense of entitlement, unrealistic and grandiose fantasies, requiring excessive attention, responding with rage to criticism, or disagreement, excessive and destructive envy, exploitativeness, lack of empathy. Pathological narcissism rarely manifests in a first encounter - but is invariably revealed later on.

Q: The latest web craze is blogging. Some of these sites are focused on external subjects, like politics or technology, but the majority of them are online diaries wherein the owners attempt to self-mythologize the most mundane aspects of their existence. Are weblogs becoming the latest form of collective narcissism?

A: It depends on the blogger and the content of the blog. Not every act of self-centredness is narcissistic. A modicum of self-love, self-esteem and a sense of self-worth are all healthy. Pathological narcissism is rigorously defined. The narcissist feels grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates achievements and
talents to the point of lying, demands to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements). He (most narcissists are men) is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power, or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion.