While the electroconvulsive therapy bills introduced in New York by Marty Luster have some merit, there are some real problems as well. If you can take the time, particularly if you are a New York voter, please voice your concerns to Marty Luster's office and let them know what you think.

Following is an analysis of the bills by Tina Minkowitz:

Hi, some of you may have seen the NYAPRS email from Harvey today urging everyone to call assembly representatives & urge passage of the electroshock bills.

I want to just sound a note of caution:

First, please familiar yourselves with the bills & decide for yourself whether or not they are worth supporting. Some activists, including the leader of CTIP, an organization of electroshock survivors (Linda Andre) think that 9082 is overall capable of doing more harm than good, especially since the advisory council is now mandated to come up with a consent form in addition to its other tasks. If this bill passes, activists will have to work very hard - that means us - to get seats on the advisory council and to neutralize impact of shock shrinks especially those who have financial interest in the machines. we need to start working/thinking/preparing on this now. - and, if you are calling your representatives, you can tell them your opinion - if you don't like 9082, tell them so.

9081 In my opinion is still better than nothing but nowhere near a glowing transformation. main advances are requirement of capacity determination prior to seeking informed consent (but no explicit requirement that they can't talk to you at all about shock before doing the capacity evaluation) & that if you have a "valid advance directive" they cannot even take you to court to force shock, the advance directive controls.

Problem with definition of advance directive inserted just a couple of days ago: definition refers to article 29-c of public health law, which may mean that only the health care proxy type of advance directive will be respected here. i called mike seereiter of luster's office yesterday & luster apparently has decided to ignore this problem if they are moving to the floor vote now. that is too bad & maybe we can have some impact afterwards, but if you have a friendly relationship with representative or senator you can bring this up as well.

Again, please make your own decision about 9081 & remember that all of what looks "good" in the part about the court determination if they want to do forced shock, is already the law under Rivers v. Katz - & that the "informed consent" provisions are weak.

9083 is potentially useful reporting, not perfect, again check it out for yourself. overall i think this is worth supporting.

9084 has weaknesses too - primarily that it's targeted at prohibiting shock in doctors offices rather than looking at whether the state hospitals are prohibited because they don't have emergency medical facilities on site.

So - please don't take NYAPRS's word for this, or Marty Luster's. Luster is doing a worthwhile effort & there are some good things here but do your own careful evaluations & be prepared to help plan for the next phase.

Hi all,

Not sure what has been put out on this list yet, I understand there is an email circulating that calls the bills "pro-shock" & there is also the daily request from NYAPRS to support all the bills.

Look on NY assembly website, http://www.assembly.state.ny.us - go to bill search & type in 9081, 9082, 9083 & 9084 to look at the bills - the first page that comes up for each bill will be history of actions & justification, you have to click on "see bill text" in upper left hand corner to see the actual bill.

Would like to offer my opinion on it, in case anybody is interested - which is basically that with the exception of 9082, the bills are better than what we have now & offer some minimal protections.

The NY bills do not go as far as Texas in creating meaningful protections for informed consent. in fact that is an understatement, the informed consent provisions are among the weakest components of the bills. (but, on forced shock & reporting there are a few meaningful provisions - see below.) there is nothing required by the legislation to be disclosed - unlike the Texas legislation, which spells out what has to be included in the informed consent disclosures - particularly, the possibility of irrevocable memory loss & the possibility of death. NY's bills refer the content of this disclosure to an advisory council (disclosure of "benefits", "adverse effects" & "less intrusive alternatives" is required in general terms by 9081, & 9082 says that the advisory council is to draft this information) - & the advisory council will be appointed & begin work within 90 days of the bill being signed into law. while people who have experienced shock are required to be represented on the council, the council has 15 people on it & there is no requirement of any proportion of shock survivors to psychiatrists, & no requirement of balance of views either in composition of the council or in what they are required to consider or produce.

The bills also require a facility to give people a list of resources, & access to those resources, to learn more information about electroshock. the content of this list is also referred to the advisory council.

(&, Texas also prohibits shock against minors - which NY's bills do not - instead this issue too is referred to the advisory council.)

Linda Andre of Committee for Truth in Psychiatry, the organization of shock survivors that people join by endorsing a proposed consent form, opposes the advisory council bill, 9082 - because it is unlikely that advocates of "truth" in informed consent about shock will get their voices heard. some advocates i have talked to think it is possible to get something better than what the Office of Mental Health would do otherwise, from the Advisory Council. personally, i am particularly concerned that the Advisory Council will give a seal of approval to bad disclosure information - this was added to their responsibilities late in the game, and it is the single most dangerous thing they can do.